tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post4971400510521480380..comments2023-10-28T02:59:41.443-07:00Comments on WDYT: What Do You Think?: Rise up, O Men of God!Bishop Sally Dyckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14652306960097750264noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-35102315937412492292010-02-08T07:27:17.604-08:002010-02-08T07:27:17.604-08:00therapeutics disposals conscience adapted fails co...therapeutics disposals conscience adapted fails condititons turnover meuwly pages introducing avalanches <br />lolikneri havaqatsuAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-14560451554576722082009-11-30T01:17:31.779-08:002009-11-30T01:17:31.779-08:00[url=http://community.bsu.edu/members/buy+online+V...[url=http://community.bsu.edu/members/buy+online+Viagra.aspx]how to get prescription of Viagra[/url]<br /><br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/pervyy-raz-onalnyy-seks.php]первый раз ональный секс[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/da-poshlo-vse-nahuy-blyad.php]да пошло все нахуй блядь[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/prostitutki-v-gorode-domodedovo.php]проститутки в городе домодедово[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/seks-znakomstva-kaluga-doska.php]секс знакомства калуга доска[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/poznakomlus-dlya-kunilingusa.php]познакомлюсь для кунилингуса[/url][url=http://ceklansi.ru/nizhegorodskie-prostitutki-individualki.php]нижегородские проститутки индивидуалки[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/shipilovskaya-shluhi.php]шипиловская шлюхи[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/prostitutki-g-kaluga.php]проститутки г калуга[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/voskresensk-dosug.php]воскресенск досуг[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/rossii-dosug.php]россии досуг[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/seks-dosug-irkutsk.php]секс досуг иркутск[/url]<br />[url=http://ceklansi.ru/blyadi-nizhnego-novgoroda.php]бляди нижнего новгорода[/url]<br />[url=http://celuyou.ru/dosug-nn-ru.php]досуг нн ру[/url]<br />[url=http://celuyou.ru/sayt-seks-znakomstva.php]сайт секс знакомства[/url]<br />[url=http://celuyou.ru/poznakomtes-s-uolli-sparksom-onlayn.php]познакомьтесь с уолли спарксом онлайн[/url]<br />[url=http://celuyou.ru/iskusstvo-znakomstva-s-muzhchinami.php]искусство знакомства с мужчинами[/url]<br />[url=http://celuyou.ru/znakomstva-bez-registracii-v-novosibirske.php]знакомства без регистрации в новосибирске[/url][url=http://deperovero.ru/index.php]знакомства в красноярске[/url]<br />[url=http://deperovero.ru/seks-dozor-blog.php]секс дозор blog[/url]<br />[url=http://mx.deperovero.ru/forum-sayt-znakomstv.php]форум сайт знакомств[/url]<br />[url=http://mx.deperovero.ru/ischu-partnera-po-seksu.php]ищу партнера по сексу[/url]<br />[url=http://rp.deperovero.ru/shluhi-prostitutki-chelyabinska.php]шлюхи проститутки челябинска[/url]<br />[url=http://rp.deperovero.ru/dorogie-prostitutki-peterburg.php]дорогие проститутки петербург[/url]<br />[url=http://ss.deperovero.ru/prostitutki-zhenschiny-moskvy.php]проститутки женщины москвы[/url]<br />[url=http://ss.deperovero.ru/dating-ru-moskva-znakomstva.php]dating ru москва знакомства[/url]<br />[url=http://tt.deperovero.ru/obyavleniya-seks-znakomstv-topic.php]объявления секс знакомств топиц[/url]<br />[url=http://tt.deperovero.ru/prastitutki-moskovskoy-oblasti.php]праститутки московской области[/url]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-59790103302029596552008-10-05T12:34:00.000-07:002008-10-05T12:34:00.000-07:00I think the church has been weakened by violating ...I think the church has been weakened by violating God's design for men and women. The church needs to repent and be obedient, rather than following the American culture.<BR/>1 Timothy 2:11-15Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-11040475019831029852008-09-08T07:51:00.000-07:002008-09-08T07:51:00.000-07:00I wish I would have seen this blog post earlier......I wish I would have seen this blog post earlier...<BR/><BR/>Anyway, my take is this: the church sees a lack of men because a definite "this is what we believe" message is sorely lacking. It reminds me of the message to the Church of Laodicea in Rev. 3.... There is so much about today's church that I'd prefer to simply spit out of my mouth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-10440906747163999942008-03-22T07:03:00.000-07:002008-03-22T07:03:00.000-07:00Guys:Thanks for being bravehearts and responding t...Guys:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for being bravehearts and responding to this potentially incendiary topic. I'm fascinated that no women weighed in on it. And you've done a great job of helping me prepare for my address and workshop at the Regenerating Worship event on April 11th on how we're all "wired" a little differently for something as personal and spiritual as worship.<BR/><BR/>SallyBishop Sally Dyckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14652306960097750264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-4387240284728482002008-03-20T13:10:00.000-07:002008-03-20T13:10:00.000-07:00I concur, Brent. The church needs to meet people ...I concur, Brent. The church needs to meet people where they are, even if it wants to also move them to some new places. That's true for all people. If low expectations are a part of the problem, let's address that. If we talk too much, let's get down to doing something. When we need to talk, let's find a way to do that. The church needs a sense of adventure, a willingness to try new things, a little creative chaos.<BR/><BR/>DavidDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030060801474883699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-77123331096789827282008-03-20T06:04:00.000-07:002008-03-20T06:04:00.000-07:00There's a line from a Kris Kristofferson song that...There's a line from a Kris Kristofferson song that goes, "There was a man named Mahatma Ghandhi, he would not bow down, he would not fight..." You can't get much more manly than that.<BR/><BR/>Ghandhi, Churchill, Hitler, and Rev. James Lawson were all more-or-less contemporaries and certainly all male, yet I would have a hard time fitting them all in the same study group. Characterizing all men as needing the same thing is as wrong, and as bigoted, as trying to stuff people into any particular catagory, whether it be by age, sex, or color.<BR/><BR/>I think of most of the men in my church, and it is my opinion that where growth in Christianity can coincide with the value they assign to themselves, namely competance in doing real, physical work, it adds another, and badly needed, dimension to worship.<BR/><BR/>Brent<BR/>p.s. The title of the Kristofferson song is "My God, They Killed Him!" which just goes to show, it ain't easy being a man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-72273792360657187352008-03-19T10:20:00.000-07:002008-03-19T10:20:00.000-07:00I appreciate the thoughtful responses already gene...I appreciate the thoughtful responses already generated to the bishop’s questions, responses offered by real men who are also thoughtful people.<BR/><BR/>Whenever I hear this discussion about males in the church, and it has been around for awhile, I am reminded of Winston Churchill’s description of the Soviet Union – “a riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma.” This is especially true for a man who has spent much of his adult life in the church – and ain’t I a man.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I don’t feel very included in many of the descriptions of men in those discussions of what men really want in a church. In the April 3, 2007 edition of The Christian Century a writer reviewed the book Why Men Hate Church and concluded with these words: "Could it be that men are not all the same? And for that matter, women as well? Do we need variety of worship styles not because men are different from women, but because we are all unique and different from one another?... do we need to sit side by side regardless of our differences and struggle to be the body of Christ together?... At its best, the church listens to threats and critiques without compromising its core principles; it changes for the better without opting to offer whatever sells." I think she was on to something.<BR/><BR/>Yes, we often need to be more action-oriented in the church and offer more hands-on opportunities to our people, perhaps especially to our men. We should offer male-only opportunities, too – retreats, discussion groups, prayer groups, mission teams. There is a deep need for all these activities - Jeff, Steve and Brent make great points. At the same time, it may be helpful to see the limitations in our cultural descriptions of masculinity, limitations that may impair our growth as human persons. Sometimes I really need someone to talk to me and listen to me, not hand me a hammer. And ain’t I a man?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030060801474883699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-30414081643169792482008-03-17T18:51:00.000-07:002008-03-17T18:51:00.000-07:00I don't think men need to be coddled, but I agree ...I don't think men need to be coddled, but I agree that what most churches offer don't really fit what men do need.<BR/><BR/>There is a clear cultural expectation of what it is to be a man, and to aspire to that can be hard and lonely, yet culturally I see little chance of a group of men getting together to chat about their loneliness and brokenness. To do that would be a violation of the male mores that led to the loneliness in the first place.<BR/> What does seem to work is to get men engaged in some sort of physical activity - shingling the parsonage, building desks for Africa...something...manly. And, in the midst of all that testosterone and blisters there will occasionally arise some real communication and maybe even a little healing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-22869041610443723702008-03-14T14:13:00.000-07:002008-03-14T14:13:00.000-07:00I certainly agree that men are one of the groups m...I certainly agree that men are one of the groups most visibly missing in UM and other mainline churches. I also agree that offering small groups for men to support one another and learn together will help. However, I think the reasons cited by the author are superficial reasons explaining why men don't want to attend worship. <BR/><BR/>I think a more substantial reason for the exodus of men from our churches is that we expect very little from them. What I mean is that men will more actively participate in organizations that expect something from them and that holds them accountable to living into the expectations. <BR/><BR/>I experienced this when I was a pastor in Preston & Lanesboro. Most of the men in the Preston church were active in the local chapter of the Lions. They let me know that they'd very much like their pastor to be a member of the Lions with them. So, I accepted their invitation and became a Lion. The expectations of membership were that I pay regular dues, attend regular meetings, and participate in the chapter's fund raising events.<BR/><BR/>Within the first six months of my membership in the Lions I was elected to serve on a couple of conference committees. These committees required me to attend meetings in the Twin Cities a few times a month. My commitments to the conference therefore prevented me from keeping my commitment to the Lions. To make a long story short, I ended up resigning my Lions membership because I could not live up to the requirements of membership.<BR/><BR/>The problem with most UM churches is that we have very low expectations of and no accountability for membership. Therefore, many men quickly discern that church membership is not worthy of their time and energy. Men will be more open to giving themselves to something that expects something of them and gives them opportunities to serve and be active in mission.Steven Manskarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12481009878158561387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5617651438960825452.post-8541263404109360442008-03-14T14:10:00.000-07:002008-03-14T14:10:00.000-07:00I think unfortunately there is some truth to this....I think unfortunately there is some truth to this. While I do not have the hard statistical evidence that Twitchell probably did when he made his statements but my limited anecdotal evidence seems to support his claim. On the whole in my congregation women attend more than the men do, despite the fact that 90% of my members are couples, in almost every case the woman has a better attendance record than the man. We are finally getting a men's breakfast group together, but the church has had a UMW basically since it began and the only continuous study group in the church is almost all females. I think that the are barriers that keep men from engaging as fully in their faith. I do not think that it is as simple as pews vs. theater style seats, but I do think that men relate differently to their faith, by doing not by sitting and listening. I object to the notion of coddling, I would rather say that we as the church need to make sure we are meeting the needs of all people, whether they engage by listening, engaging by debating, engage by doing, or whatever. It is not just about reaching out to men, it is about reaching out to everyone and knowing that it takes a variety of styles and formats to do that.Jeff Ozannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09919141837190484716noreply@blogger.com